Interviews: Chris Driggs | Phillip Earl | Ann Howard | Bob Kent | Elizabeth Raymond | Guy Rocha

Chris Driggs, Historian

Topics:
The 1914 Campaign
Boyle's Legislative Years
The War Years
The 1919 Mining Strikes
Boyle, The Man

The 1914 Campaign

Q: Was the 1914 campaign the first one for Boyle?

CD: He ran for university regent in 1904 when he was 25 years old. At that time the regents were elected statewide. And he lost. He lost to the incumbent. So 1914 would be the second time he ran for political office.

Q: He was a dark horse?

CD: Tasker Oddie was the incumbent. He had been a very progressive governor. I think yes, I think you could say that Boyle would have been underdog to begin with. However nationally, Wilson was very popular and the Democrats themselves were popular in the country in 1914. Woodrow Wilson had come in in 1912. So he had the Democrats as a party at least. Boyle was a Democrat and Oddie was a Republican. But, anytime you run against an incumbent I think you have to be called a dark horse or at least the underdog.

Q: So he was riding the popularity of the Democratic Party. What kind of candidate was he?

CD: He was a very popular candidate in that he was popular among Nevadans because he was a native Nevandan. And he had been a very high profile state engineer. Between 1910 and 1913 he was state engineer. And I think lot of big projects he was involved in. I think he was well known because of that. And then he quite under Oddie. He quit as state engineer. They had some problems dealing with a water bill that Boyle wanted passed. It was passed; Oddie vetoed it. And in wake of a veto, Boyle resigned. However when the Nevada Tax Commission formed in 1913, there were three members on the Nevada Tax Commission. One had to be a Republican, one had to be a Democrat, and then there was a chairman of the committee who was already a member. And Oddie appointed Boyle as a member of the Tax Commission. So there couldn't have been too many hard feelings there. And that made him also well known. He traveled the state as a member of the Tax Commission and I think he well known that way as well. So he was certainly not an unknown when he ran in 1914.

Q: Was he tapped by the party to run?

CD: The story goes the story that was in the newspapers at the time, he was hand-picked by the Party. They had the proverbial smoked filled room. There was a meeting in Washoe County among the Democratic Party leaders on who should be the nominee in 1914. A man from Fallon had already declared. A man named Lynn Alan who was very old at that time. He was in his 60s. He had been in the legislature in 19th century. He had been the lieutenant governor in the first decade in the 20th century. But by 1914 they did not think he was a viable. He had already announced for the candidacy. And the story goes that there was a group of people who got together in an office in Washoe County to decide who would be the hand picked of member of this elite or at least of these leaders. And Boyle was picked. So the story goes that it was thrust upon him. It was not something he volunteered for and actively campaigned for to begin with.

Q: What was his platform in 1914?

CD: He ran on a progressive platform. Oddie was also a progressive. But Boyle ran on a progressive platform. And progressive would be women's suffrage and a more effective way of doing business in government. What that means is that it is government run by commissions. It's government run by experts. So instead of us having one person or two people, you have a governor, secretary of state, state treasurer and state controller who ran all of state government. Boyle believed in efficient government. And so you'd have commissions. Before the state prison was run by a prison commission, which would be made up of the governor, secretary of state and state controller. Or the orphans home, which was run by those people. He thought have people who actually have experience in those areas, who know about child welfare, who know about state prisons, who know about mental hospitals have them as a commission run those institutions. And he was much interested in commission form of government. He also thought it was more efficient not to have as many elective offices as Nevada had.

Q: So he was looking at changing the way government was run?

CD: That's right. By having more of a cabinet system. The governor would be elected but then the governor would have a lot of leeway for who he could appoint to the top offices in the state instead of having that be elected. He thought that was a more efficient way of government. He also believed that the tax structure, by being a member of the tax commission he thought the tax structure in Nevada was woefully inadequate. And he wanted a big change in the tax structure.

Q: So how did he differ from Oddie, who also ran as a progressive?

CD: There was not much of a difference in the two. And so the campaign ended up coming across as what Oddie believed. Oddie ran on an anti-gaming, anti-gambling. He wanted gambling out of Nevada. And he also wanted for the divorce laws stricter in Nevada. Boyle … and he accused Boyle of wanting the opposite. Boyle sort of was wishy-washy in the campaign. Apparently he was backed by business interests in the state who wanted liberalization of gambling and divorce laws in Nevada. The 1913 legislature had really tightened up gambling laws and divorce laws in Nevada. And that was seen by the business community as impeding commerce in the state. So Oddie kind of controlled the dialogue a lot in the 1914 campaign, accusing Boyle on these issues. There was also an issue involving the state prison when Boyle was state engineer. He had approved some plans for an expansion to the prison. Oddie said he had, they were way too extravagant. And Oddie as governor was able to stop those plans, but accused Boyle of too much extravagance. Boyle came back in the campaign to show that Oddie that that was not true and that Oddie also was extremely extravagant in his dealings in state government. I don't they were real issues. They were trying to find a way to differentiate. Back then you campaign altogether. The Democratic ticket, all would go from town to town to town in a caravan and speak on issues. And so it was almost as if you were voting, you were voting for the candidate but really you were voting for the ticket. But you're right. Oddie and Boyle didn't have too many differences.

Q: Wasn't Oddie Wingfield's man? And did Wingfield want looser gambling laws?

CD: That's true. Boyle also ran on anti-gaming and anti-divorce. He said. His actions were somewhat different than he was saying.

Boyle's Legislative Years

Q: The 1915 legislature didn't pass Boyle stricter gaming bill.

CD: Boyle always had in every single one of his legislative sessions, he had a hard time working with the legislature. And not very much of what he really wanted got passed. He tried to tell them wanted in his governor's message and I don't think he worked very well with the legislature. In almost every session he had to sign bills that he didn't want to sign. I think that was one of his failings as governor, was that he was not effective working with legislature.

Q: The Bonanza News chided Boyle for straddling the fence. Was this his nature?

CD: I think he was often straddling the fences. I think it may be a reflection of what he wanted and the party wanted. I think the Democratic Party during those years that he was governor, um, definitely wanted gaming and divorce and tourism. And I think that Boyle was often not happy with that. And I think he so I think he did straddle the fence in being a politician and being someone, what he really wanted in his own mind but that was best for the party. I do think he straddled the fence on issues. He definitely did when it came to gambling and divorce laws in 1915.

Q: So what was Boyle legislative agenda?

CD: What Boyle was interested in was economic diversification. And he thought that agriculture was the way for the state to go. He'd come from the mining area, mining industry, had been a miner, a mine superintendent. His father had been a mine superintendent. He saw that the mining game was up in Nevada. So what he went after when he was governor was to bring more agriculture to Nevada and that meant trying find water for Nevada. And that's what he spent a lot of his time as governor trying to do. And that's what he believed population would come. Nice steady farmers with families bringing a nice sense to Nevada. I do think he was a very good governor for Nevada. I think that Nevada is better off that he was governor. And he did strive, he did, he wasn't happy with gambling. But I think he did allow more of it to happen than his uh, then he let on to say in his speeches.

Q: But agriculture did not prove fruitful.

CD: It did not prove fruitful over time. That's definitely right. It did not prove fruitful, as we know now. It didn't happen. But I think in 1914, ten years into the project, I think there was still a lot of optimism that it could happen with Nevada. Now I think he very much was for good transportation. Boyle certainly was. He was here when the Lincoln Highway was finished. And I think he was very excited about that.

Q: So he had a difficult time working within the politics of state government.

CD: Within the politics of the legislature. I think he had a hard time. He mentioned in his governor's messages, I want this and this and this. At the end of the session he looked at those first positions and hardly any of those things ever passed. Instead he was forced to sign bills, he claimed that, he was forced to sign bills he didn't want done. He always claimed his biggest accomplishment as governor was to put the budget act through. Before Boyle's time there was no overall budget. There was no governor's budget. Each officer, each constitutional officer would go before the legislature and ask for an amount of money. And the legislature would then pass different appropriations to run the secretary of state's office for two years, to run the treasury's office for two years, to run the state prison for two years. And they had to sort of figure out on the run how this all was going to work. How it was going to be revenue. And Boyle started very early in his time trying to get a budget bill passed. And he finally did. And finally got the budget bill passed. And so he had the first executive budget. He always thought that was his best accomplishment as governor.

Q: From what you say he sounds more like a technician who wants to improve the way state government functions than a progressive trying to improve the lives of people.

CD: That's what he thought progressive government was. Progressive government for him was to make the state more efficient. And I think you're right from that technical standpoint. That he was that. Now, he certainly was for progressive measures dealing with worker's rights when it came to child labor and women's rights and that kind of stuff. But those are federal, a lot of that was federal legislation which he wouldn't have had any effect over.

Q: During the first two years of Boyle's administration, Nevada's economy turns around.

CD: Attribute it to the national scene. World War One has started and markets in Europe are shut off but people around the world still need products, industrial and agricultural products. And so the U.S. as a nation fills that gap. And so the economy improves because of the international scene and because of the national economy. However, the big thing with Nevada was its silver which had not been in demand for a very long time all of a sudden the price for silver jumps an enormous rate. Because of the war silver is now needed all over the world. And Nevada has much more of an incentive to mine the silver in Nevada. And that some of the reason why the economy improves so much in Nevada was World War One.

Q: Did he ever expend political capitol to get something that he wanted?

CD: I think … he certainly passed … I think the governor's budget has to be one of those things the legislature would not think would be a good thing to have. In the checks and balances of the government I think the legislature would think that they had control of the purse strings. And they should be able to decide who gets what money. So to get a governor's budget passed to allow the governor to tell the legislature this is how much money and this is what it should go for I think that's a move toward showing some leadership and getting things passed that they wound not have wanted passed. Maybe bringing some … I think he was once again work with the business community and to have them show the legislature why it was an important issue for Nevada.

The War Years

Q: So the war was a good thing for Nevada.

CD: World War One was very important for Nevada to improve its economy because of the demand for silver very much increased. When the demand increased, the price increased. which allowed more mines to be opened up, which allowed for more jobs. And now more money was around in the area.

Q: When Boyle sends the militia to protect the mines, was there real concern or only fear?

CD: I think he was very much … At the time of WWI 1916, 1917, 1918, everyone was sort of scared of foreigners. And it certainly was that sense that foreign agents in the U.S. and German agents would want to keep workers from working because the products coming out of the U.S. were helping the Allied nations. There certainly was a fear there. And so it was always a fearful, a fear of strikes and so it was very important for Boyle who thought that if there were foreign agents and they were trying to shut down the mines, that of course would be horrible for Nevada and for the U.S.

Q: But for a state that had ethnic diversity, the fear seemed to be overrated.

CD: World War One, the propaganda was so incredible at that time, statewide and worldwide. The press really had control of what people thought. And Boyle, I think, was not immuned to the propaganda, not immuned to what is right for Nevada. And I think at that time it was, the tenet was anti-foreigners, and of course anti-German.

Q: He did say let's not go over board

CD: When the war began he tried to tell people calm down. We're all Americans here. Don't jump to conclusions. Don't jump to conclusions. And in fact he even put a statement out when there was a lot of anti-Hearst um ballyhoo he said now wait a minute, we don't want to put any curbs on freedom of press. Let's don't go overboard with being so anti-Hearst papers.

Q: Prior to our entry, Boyle was opposed to the war.

CD: Absolutely. Once again I think he seemed to follow Woodrow Wilson very much or maybe Wilson followed what he thought was public opinion, and Boyle followed that. He was very much opposed to the war, very much for staying out of the war. And I think he was following what Woodrow Wilson was saying who was President at the time. He followed Wilson in some interesting ways as well. In that Wilson broke the precedent of delivering a message in person.

Wilson delivered a message in person to Congress when he gave his annual message which had not be done in an incredible long time. And as far as we know, Boyle was the very first governor to deliver his message in person. Before that the governors had just sent them over in paper form. And Boyle actually talked to the legislature. And I think his 1917 message took an hour and ten minutes, which I think was quite a lengthy address to listen to Gov. Boyle.

Q: Explain the Four-Minute Men concept and Boyle's role.

CD: He joined a troika of Gov. Boyle, ex-governor Oddie and a man named Grant Miller who had been the Socialist candidate for Governor in 1914. And so here were the three candidates who had run in the last election in 1914. And they would go out on the stump from town to town and try to get people to buy bonds to support the war effort. And they would all give rabble-rousing speeches. And the most important part of each speech was when Grant Miller - they would be on opposite sides of the stage -and Grant Miller would walk across to shake hands with Governor Boyle and he would say, "I was his opponent in the last election but he's my governor, and he should be your governor as well. And applause would break out and everyone was happy and they would sell more war bonds. So that was the dog and pony show that the three of them did around the state in World War One.

Q: Did he feel the anguish of the families that lost sons & husbands in the war?

CD: I think he was very affected by the loss of Nevada boys over there. Because it's such a small state, there weren't that many Nevada boys who went over. And so of course every loss would be much more important to them. He tried to keep in touch. One of the things when he wrote to somebody or family member he kept saying, "Are you getting Nevada papers? If you're not, I can get a subscription for you. I'll make sure the Nevada papers are sent to you. And so I think he was very interested in the welfare of the boys overseas.

The 1919 Mining Strikes

Q: In 1919 Nevada was hit with labor trouble.

CD: That right. Now there were three labor problems at the same time in Nevada. They went on strike in Virginia City, they went on strike in Ely, and they went on strike in Tonopah. In Ely and Virginia City, um, it was the long time labor union people that went on strike. And Boyle was able to mediate those strikes. He always felt he was a very good mediator. He always said he worked in mines. He had been a mine superintendent. He understood both labor and management. Could talk to both sides. So in the Ely situation he went down to San Francisco because that's where the officers of the mines, that's where their offices were at. He discussed the issues involving Ely in San Francisco with those gentlemen. He then drove to Ely and discussed the same issues with the labor union people and was able to find a compromise on wages. Of course wages was the big issue. Wages had been held down during World War 1 because it was a patriotic thing to do and after WWI a boom was happening around the country and wages were not keeping up with inflation. And so strikes happen workers do not believe they are getting their fair share. So Boyle was able to mediate Ely and he thought he could do the same thing in Tonopah. And he was a bit overconfident. Because Tonopah had been organized by the IWW who had a large agenda than just an increase in wages. That was certainly one of their planks but they had a larger agenda than just an increase in wages. So when Boyle hit that he thought he could make them compromise. He thought that they wanted to settle. And he believed when he went down there that the IWW did not want to settle this strike. That it was more important for the IWW organizers to keep the strike going than to mediate and compromise.

CD: Now Boyle in February 1919 … I mean the IWW's were already happening by early 1919. In February of 1919, Boyle and the legislature passed a Criminal Syndicalism Act, which was aimed at the IWW. They were seen as a syndicate that was organized. It wasn't just some guys coming in and saying, "Hey, we should strike." This is an actual movement, and one that had an agenda. And that these people if it were shown that they were part of a syndicate and could be shown that they were in criminal activity that just by being a member of this union you could be arrested. And so this act passed in Nevada, it gave some real teeth into arresting IWW people. So he had that in his back pocket when he went down to Tonopah to be used.

Q: But in the end, he couldn't settle the strike.

CD: He could not pull it off. He went down thinking that they would listen to him. Now of course, it was a little complicated in Tonopah because you had the IWW organizing. A lot of people were part of their union. You also had the old time, regular mining labor unions that were there. And when Boyle got down there, and found that the IWW were not going to talk to him, he kind of decided, "Well, I'm going to talk to regular labor unions." And he did. And he mediated with them and got them to agree. They had a ballot and the regular people who belonged to the regular labor union, or the conservative labor union, as it was called there, agreed to Boyle's mediation. Boyle trumpeted in the press, "The Strike is settled. They've agreed to it." and he decided to go back … you know, declared victory and left and went back to Carson City. Meanwhile, of course, it was not settled. The IWW did not agree to those terms and the strike went on. But Boyle claimed victory and left in the fall of 1919.

Q: Wasn't unusual for a governor to get this involved in a labor strike?

CD: I believe it was very unusual for a governor to get this involved. It certainly did not happened in Nevada history up to that point. Certainly what you have now are governors, representatives -0 you'd have aides who would be talking to groups like this. The governor might be involved now but certainly would not be personally involved, as Boyle was who was very personally involved.

Q: How had Boyle changed between the candidate in 1914 to the governor in 1919?

CD: Governor Boyle certainly was a different man 1914 and 1919. In 1914 he would have seen himself as much as a pro-labor governor. He would have certainly found it would be right for a working man to go out on strike. I think he would have been seen that they would have had certain grievances that should be taken care of. By 1919, he viewed the IWW as taking over labor unions in the state of Nevada and maybe over the country. And his views changed on the working man. He no longer believed that the working man had a right to strike. And almost any strike from 1919 forward as governor he tried to crush. He did not believe that the labor union, that labor unions in Nevada were the same labor unions he knew in 1914. He became much more conservative.

CD: He felt so burned by the IWW, by the radical labor movement in America. He believed they were taking the working man on a place they should be going to. And he then gave labor unions a broad brush after that. Um, it's a fault, a fault in Boyle's character. But once again, it certainly was no different than what the American people were thinking of at the time. They certainly were not pro-radical labor union. We were entering the decade of the 1920s, which was a lot different than the decade of the 19-teens.

CD: And he would have certainly, he had friends that were Socialists in 1914. In the 1916 election, Grant Miller who was the Socialist candidate certainly was not seen as a pariah in state government. I think that they were just a legitimate political party. Of course you had a large colony in Churchill County of socialists. But boy, as soon as the war ended in 1919, by 1919 the Socialists were not considered a legitimate part any more of the Nevada political scene. And I think Boyle's view of socialists as a whole turned extremely 180 degrees. Certainly 1914 to 1919 is a very interesting era. Um, you can't discount what the war brought to Nevada. Um, you had people leaving home for the first time. You had people being stationed all over the country. A lot of people coming out West for the first time who had never seen Nevada. They certainly weren't stationed in Nevada but they were stationed in other parts of the West. And people who were seeing Nevada for the very first time. A lot of those came back. They liked what they saw. They liked the wide-open spaces of Nevada. And so that was an interesting time of how society was changing in America and how Nevada changed. Of course population did quite well in Nevada after the war. A lot of people came. Interesting that the divorce culture exploded in the 1920s for various reasons. But obviously the ease of transportation now of coming into Nevada. So you think about the 1914-1919 era with transportation, the Lincoln Highway, with WWI which disrupted the nation - for good and for ill. Um, I think both those reasons. Of course the whole labor movement and what a change, what a change that was in Nevada. Makes for a very interesting and rambunctious era years those five years.

Boyle, The Man

Q: What shaped Emmet Boyle?

CD: I want to say what shaped Emmet Boyle into the man he was as an adult was Nevada. He was extremely interested in Nevada history and knew it very well. His father came to the Comstock in the 1860s. And that whole era between 1860 and 1900, I think, had a very strong influence on Emmet Boyle. He went to the University of Nevada. And while he was there he worked on the student newspaper. He was also the first associate editor of the Nevada yearbook there. He wrote some articles for the newspaper and for the yearbook. And here he is as an 18 or 19 year old, and his articles dealt with Nevada history. Dealt with how the wealth of Nevada had been sent elsewhere. That people made their money in Nevada and left the state. And I think that had a strong influence on him. And he wanted Nevada for Nevadans. Stop making Nevada the money, the bank for other people. He thought it was important to keep the wealth in Nevada. To sort of keep, to of bring people into Nevada. So I think his life philosophy, I think, was shaped by the history of this state.

Q: Guy Rocha saw Boyle as a great Progressive who wanted to move Nevada away from gaming and divorce. Do you agree with his assessment?

CD: I see Gov. Scruggim in that. That sounds like Gov. Scruggim. Gov. Scruggim, who was Boyle's successor and Boyle's very good friend, Gov. Scruggim, I think, may have been a better governor than Gov. Boyle. Gov. Scruggim was very much for good roads and for destination tourism. And I would not put Boyle in exactly the same league as Gov. Scruggim. And when Scruggim was defeated in 1926 and Gov. Balzark came in that was an end of destination tourism and more to gambling.

Q: Was Wilson his idol?

CD: Yes. I think in many ways he was. They looked a little bit alike at times with the glasses and that sort of thing. I think he supported Wilson very much. However, once Wilson left office, and Harding came in, it's amazing the stands that Boyle took after that because he sounded a little bit like Harding. So, not that, Boyle may not have been the most original thinker in the world, but he certainly seemed to follow what the public opinion was.

Q: So he would have been a poll-reader?

CD: I think very much so. I think he was interested in what public opinion was. So I think he would have read poll.

Q: So what's that tell you about the man?

CD: I think that, he said in one of his earlier messages to the legislature that he that there were two types of legislation, two types of issues. One was an issue that the public was very much informed on and seemed to understand. And he believed when that happened he would follow what the public thought was right. The second type of legislation was he thought was the kind of issues that the public was not well informed at and he did not believe they knew all the ins and outs of the issues. On those kinds of issues he did what he thought was right. So I think when he believed when the public was fully informed on an issue and the public backed a certain, that issue, I think he went along with the public.

Q: So as you talk about Boyle, I get the impression that he was more the technocrat than the visionary.

CD: His honesty is what his best, I think what his best quality might have been. And that's what people say over and over and over again. He was so well respected by everybody. And … I don't think he was that partisan. And uh, … and that's what obviously if you read eulogies after he's dead everyone says nice things about everybody. But what I've read and what people said about him at the time and later on was the honesty and the respect that he got from people, from all parties. So yes, we'll say he wasn't a genius. He wasn't an original thinker. He had definite ideas of where he wanted Nevada to go. Also, one of the interesting things about Emmet Boyle was that he very rarely left the state. He was born here. He grew up here. He was governor here. And he did leave for conferences and meetings. And except for a couple of years when he was just right out of his teenage years, he spent one year in Mexico and one year in Canada working, he was pretty provincial, um, his viewpoint would have been.

Q: Yet he seemed to be out of town at interesting moments.

CD: We have to remember back then that state government um was a much slower process. The legislature met for 90 days every other year. And so the governor had to be in town from January to March in the odd years. But other than that, there wasn't that much to do. And so it certainly would allow the governor to go other places and serve the social function.

Q: Perhaps you can talk about the intimacy of government in the state.

CD: As we know the state was smaller and people knew each other a lot closer than we do now. Of course there isn't … the governor would have had a private secretary who was a man, basically a chief of staff. And then there would be one stenographer; we would call a secretary now. She was tough. Her name was Bertha Cohen. And apparently, Bertha was quite big. And if the governor didn't want to see you Bertha made sure the governor didn't see you. However the governor took the V&T a lot between Carson City and Reno. And his letters and telegrams he will often say, "Yes, I can meet you. I'm taking the 2:05 to Reno, meet me at the station. Or "Yeah, we'll talk, come on down, come on down with me to Carson City on the train." And so there was a lot more intimacy. He certainly would just get on the train and go to Reno. Or be in Reno and come back on the train. And I think there was much more opportunity to just talk to the governor one on one And I think pretty much if you wanted to make an appointment he would talk to you as well. I think there was much more of an easiness of relationships between the public and the governor of Nevada.

Q: He was also a guy who took off in a car.

CD: Oh, the roads were horrible, of course. They were not paved at that time. And, yes there were those would not have been easy drives around the state but he did a lot of that. He did a lot of driving to Ely, to Tonopah. There wasn't really any other way to go at that point. The railroad didn't go there and of course there was no airplanes to go. So you would have to drive pretty bad roads.